The Peering Podcast

[00:00:36] Mike Richardson: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Peering Podcast, where the best way to see the future is to peer into it together.

I'm really excited today that we are gonna be peering into the challenges. Faced by CEOs of life sciences, businesses and companies and uh, enterprises. And to help us do that, we have somebody who has been in that lane his whole life, uh, his whole career. David Cream, uh, is an investor, an advisor, an executive, a mentor.

To CEOs of life sciences companies. We'll hear more about his journey, uh, as we go through here. David, welcome to the podcast. Thank

[00:01:25] David Crean: you, Mike, and thanks for having me, uh, on the podcast. You know, I've, uh, we're not only friends with you and, and your, and your beloved, but I've followed the, you know, the evolution of your work for many, many years.

Your focus on. Having real conversations, developing real leaders, real decision making, super important, and I've always admired the environments that you create for people to think more clearly and collaboratively. It's really an honor. Oh, such an honor. Speak with you today. You're too

[00:01:54] Mike Richardson: kind. Oh,

[00:01:58] David Crean: oh. You're very humble.

You're, you're very, you're too humble, Michael. Oh. A

[00:02:01] Mike Richardson: little bit of a love fest going on here, listeners, but we'll take it. We'll take it. Yes. Just take it. And actually, that's a good place to start, David. I was trying to recall. It always goes fuzzy, doesn't it? You know? How long have we known each other? How did we first meet, meet?

Where did we, I don't, I can't remember, but it's at least 10 if not 15, maybe even 20 years. Uh, what's your recollection of how and where we first met David?

[00:02:26] David Crean: Uh, so it's probably approaching more like, uh, 15 to 20 years. Yeah. You know, we actually met through my wife's involvement with you when you were at.

Formerly, uh, tech. Tech. Yeah. And now, now called Vistage. Yep. My wife Heidi was in the marketing role there at Tech, and she was involved with working with, uh, you know, uh, chairs like yourself at Vistage. Yeah. Um, and she was responsible for branding, uh, Vistage. Yeah. Uh, she worked with a, a number of highly talented marketeers.

That's how we got to know one another, and then it just kind of exploded from there. Uh, you know, I, I became more involved with, with you in the San Diego, um, leadership community. And anyone as you know, who has spent time in this ecosystem knows how interconnected it is, whether events, advisory circles, boardrooms, deal making conversations, and.

It seems like the small group of people who seem to be everywhere all at once. Yeah. Um, and I remember our early conversations very, very vividly, Michael, because they weren't just the typical, Hey David, what's, what, what deal is happening or who's raising capital? Um, we ended up in deeper discussions, as you always say, say, you know, David, take the onion and peel it back a little very, very quickly.

About leadership on, about leadership under uncertainty, about the psychological load that CEOs carry. Um, the blind spots that show up when the stakes are high and about how people are making decisions when there's, look, there's no perfect data. If you get 80% of the data, you know, make a decision. You don't have to have a hundred percent.

Yeah. So I recall that, you know, over time our conversations expanded into. Facilitating discussions and sessions offsite work, uh, you know, going out to your, your lovely, uh, abode in, in, uh, Temecula. Yeah. And eventually the emergence of a shared mission. And you know, to me the shared mission is equipping CEOs to make better decisions by tapping into that collective intelligence.

I know that you and I talk about this all the time. Yeah. Uh, amongst their peers, so yeah. While you and I met in this call, you know the halls of the leadership circles, the reason why I believe we stayed connected over these 15, 20 years is because we both care deeply about the human side of relationship of leadership and how strong or fragile frankly it can be, depending on the support system around that CEO.

And frankly, you know, I just love our, uh, you know, our friendship. With you and your wife, uh, and all as well as with mine. Um, and it's just, it's a very, very nurturing and, and fruitful relationship. Yeah. And you can tell

[00:05:22] Mike Richardson: already everybody why we're so excited to have David here. He's, uh, already touching upon some of the themes that we want to get into and, you know, some of the, um, you know, the cognitive stuff, the ways to think about, uh, things, but also the human stuff, right?

Because at the end of the day, everybody, I mean, really that's all you've got. We're all trying to figure this out and, uh, just, we'll just join up a couple of dots, uh, quickly here. So indeed, I remember distinctly meeting Heidi, uh, Heidi Hutchinson, David's wife, uh, back then in 2003 when I first became a tech TEC, the executive committee, which then rebranded itself, uh, to Vistage in the mid two thousands.

First became a Tech slash Vistage chair back then, and Heidi was on staff at Vistage head office, which happens to be. Here in San Diego, and then I, I did all that for 15 years and became a Vistage speaker as well. And, and as you touched upon David, you know, agility and fragility became my specialty. And then, uh, you know, I, I went back and ran a company again, and then I pivoted back and now do the peer work with, uh, ref, RAF, previously Renaissance Executive Forum.

I'm really excited everybody that, um, David is becoming a forum leader of a brand new ref peer group that we are launching, uh, specifically for CEOs of life sciences businesses. Um, before we get into all of that, David, just tell us a little bit more about your career path. What. How did you get here? Uh, and where and where is here.

What else do you do today in your portfolio of activities? Uh, and how much time do we have?

[00:07:16] David Crean: We have all day, David. You know, we don't all Yeah, there you go. There you go. Well, I don't want, I don't want our viewership to drop off after five minutes. Right. Thanks for asking. Michael. You know, today I wear several hats across the life science ecosystem.

They all intersect or surround themselves around a central theme. I help leaders and companies navigate complexity. I like to always think about, you know, there's certainly, um, various aspects to. The lifecycle of a life science company. There's certainly the mentoring part, there's the investment part, and then there's the exit part.

And I do all of that and that's how I really differentiate myself. So first and foremost, I'm a managing partner at Cardiff Advisory. Um, I've started at, uh oh now going on my six year. Uh, it's a, uh, boutique investment bank, uh, where I focus on mergers and acquisitions, strategic advisory valuations of businesses and their assets and capital strategy for biopharmaceutical and healthcare companies.

You know, I've spent years in the trenches of transactions, you know, m and a and partnering helping CEOs and boards make decisions that essentially alter the trajectory of their companies. Secondly, I lead CEO 360, um, similar to ref, um, what we're trying to create with more upstream CEOs, ones that are well, um, entrenched in, you know, financing and leading more towards, um, you know, being a public company for, for example, or being acquired.

It's a peer advisory community for specifically. Focused or targeting startup life science leaders, uh, coming together in that structured format to unpack strategic and operational challenges with people who truly understand the terrain. So it's putting 25, 30 CEOs who know all the big acronyms and the five syllable words and the complexities with life sciences.

In that peer-to-peer format. Yeah. Um, so it's really great. Um, we're now going on our, our, our third year we've, uh, run, gosh, nine forums. Um, wow. Uh, so it's really, it's amazing. It's really just taking off. Third, uh, obviously as you just referenced, I'm gonna be serving as forum leader for a life science ref, life science CEO forum.

It's an initiative that I'm really deeply passionate about working alongside of you because it provides CEOs with that high trust environment that. They often lack a, a place to challenge assumptions, uh, you know, unpack and take that onion and peel it back. Pressure test decisions or as I always like to say this, you know, it's where you come to get your answers questioned, right?

Yeah. And benefit from the collective judgment. Fourth, I remain very, very active as a, as a venture investor across numerous venture funds. I invest in. Therapeutic platforms, neurodegeneration in particular. I have a real passion about neurodegeneration, uh, and various advanced modalities and innovations that really push our industry forward.

One of the things that's going on right now just in the life science, healthcare space is that there's just so much innovation going on and it's going on at such a rapid base. Yeah. So I'm super like excited about, you know, the venture investment world. And then finally, you know, um. You know, life beyond sort of my business as well centers on my family and contributing to the Alzheimer's community.

My father has Alzheimer's, um, and I serve as a, um, uh, chairman board emeritus of the local Alzheimer's Association here in San Diego. So it's a cause that is both deeply personal and professional for me. And so all these roles really tie back to one thing. Supporting leaders who are navigating extremely high stakes environment and often under enormous prety and frankly, daily uncertainty.

So yeah, that's a little bit about me.

[00:11:28] Mike Richardson: Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful. And before I forget everybody, we'll just make the connection back to your wife Heidi. Heidi is subsequently. Pivoted her own career is now doing some wonderful, wonderful, wonderful work of her own around, um, uh, leadership and in particular.

Women in the later stages of their careers and et cetera. And she's coming on the podcast in a few weeks time, everybody. So I'm really excited that we'll get, uh, the other side of the story here. Oh, gosh, yeah. The front

[00:11:58] David Crean: ladies. I, I, I, yeah. I hope I don't disappoint. She's gonna blow me away.

[00:12:03] Mike Richardson: And everybody, you can already tell why we're so excited to be having David coming on board to do this life sciences, uh, CEO forms, uh, for wrath.

Because of the wealth of experience. He's just articulated with the sort of five or six different lanes of his activity inclusive of the fact that he's already been doing peer forums with CEO 360. I think David, that the, the contrast between that and what we're gonna be doing with breath is it's not quite as clean and tidy as this.

But those CO 360 companies are generally closer to being startups, perhaps pre-series A funding. Whereas what we're gonna be doing in Wrath is t typically gonna be. A little bit more mature post series a, uh, funding, et cetera, et cetera. Tell us a little bit more about that.

[00:12:56] David Crean: Yeah, you know, there's definitely key differences between a startup CEO one who's looking at, you know, pre-seed, seed funding, even trying to get up to a series A, trying to figure out life beyond a, a bar napkin.

Versus let's say a series B and beyond. Yep. Type of company. What you're really talking about is several different aspects to that onion that we're gonna peel back. Um, you're just dealing with fundamentally different issues. The nature of the risk one is existential, can I even raise money to stay alive?

Yeah. Versus executional. So startup. Seed to Series A CEOs are, the risk is largely as existential. It's so, it's about survival. Creating a story about credibility and proof of concept to investors. You know, the, the company value really hinges on one or two binary milestones, whether you can prove the biology, uh, or you know, first customers getting that seed financing.

Frankly, the decisions are often made on based on minimal data. Yeah. High uncertainty and limited validation, frankly. Yep. Whereas in the ref form, life science, um, leader leadership model that we're gonna be going after, the kind of that upstream CEO, the risk goes from that ex, you know, shifts to that executional and scale and risk model.

The question becomes now how can we deliver consistency consistently? Predictably. Failures are rarely fatally overnight, but missteps can compound and erode trust, not only with partners, but also with your investor community. So that le, it's about that leadership shift from is this going to work in that early station now, can we deliver repeatedly at scale?

Right? And so that's a fundamental shift for that. CEO. Um, especially not, not only just in life science as a sector, but in all sectors. But in particular, um, what I wanna do is take, you know, what I've learned as not only as a former Vistage member and as a former REF member, but also now, um, having the, uh, experience through CEO 360 as a form leader and now as ref, as a form leader.

Take that and, you know, impart that to the CEOs in that life science and healthcare community to, with that more upstream CEO, to have them see more of that executional and scaling risk issue. Yeah,

[00:15:43] Mike Richardson: loving this, loving this. So it's sort of a, the evolutionary path everybody of, of being a leader and how, how your leadership presence and your leadership mindset.

Your leadership capabilities and capacities have to be going on their own journey. 1.0 2, 0 3 0.0. Just like the business is having to go on its journey 1.0, 2.0, 3.0. Your leadership journey has to be keeping up with the business journey. 'cause you, you're in the driving seat of this thing, right? I mean, if you are gonna drive it, you know, up the next phase of the trajectory, you're gonna have to fully fill that seat.

And there's a different set of requirements, uh, professionally and personally. Strategically, and as David said, executionally, uh, from a leadership and teamwork and communication point of view, it's just a whole different equation that's required. And, and if you're not careful, you know, making that transition actually doesn't come naturally.

It doesn't come by accident. It comes by design. By design everybody. What we're doing is putting together this forum that will give you a safe place, confidential place, a non-competitive place, no competitors in the room. Um, but uh, you can come to, you know, once a month for half a day facilitated by, uh, a forum leader in this case David, supported by a partner in this case me.

Uh, uh, also supported by ambassadors who, who live in this space every day and have seen many, many, many, um, companies, you know, go through this journey and this transition. Um, and it just becomes a wonderful experience, which, by the way, everybody, we're all always so much more excited to have a forum leader who's been a member of these kinds of peer group experiences.

What, what is it, David, that you recall from your own experience as a member that drives your why, for why you want to do this as a forum leader? What is it you recall from your own experience as a member?

[00:17:52] David Crean: From my, you know, one of the biggest lessons that I learned as not only growing up. In, in both personally and professionally, and then even being a member of a peer forum.

One of the biggest lessons that I learned, um, was that leadership is not about being the smartest person in the room. Yep. It's, you know, it's important about being smart enough to surround yourself with people who have. Already navigated the terrain that you're going to enter. I told my, the current CEOs that I advise and mentor today, you know this story.

And I think it's early in a career, and especially early in a company's life, especially with, you know, startup CEOs. It's easy to believe that success is gonna come from, oh, working hard and having a certain level of grit and intelligence. Hey, all I have to do is work harder than everybody else. Yeah. And those things I think matter for the most part, but they're not sufficient.

Once the stakes start to rise and once the complexity starts to increase, and experience becomes a form of leverage, and that, and I think there's a profound difference, if you will, between knowing something in theory and having lived through it, and people who have been been there and done it. Don't just provide answers.

They provide pattern recognition. And I, frankly, I use pattern recognition as, as a venture investor too. Um, I think it's an important part and they can, you know, this pattern recognition and talking to people with that, been there and done it, they can see around corners because they've already hit the walls that frankly, I was not yet.

To encounter. Yeah. And so I think that's super important. So that, that's one aspect. And then there's, there's certainly a, a corollary to that I believe in fundamentally in the power of mentorship. Michael, you know, whether you know it or not, you're one of my mentors. I have about, I have about five mentors.

Um, yes. I'm even in my sixties, I have a mentor or mentors. Um, I think mentors are not just advisors, they're frankly mirrors. They do more than give guidance. Um, they don't tell you just what you want to hear. Um, you've never told me what many times what, what you wanna hear, and frankly, one of my mentors, uh, mark Finger land, who, you know, God bless his soul, he had passed several years ago.

I would hate when he, when we would have a conversation and he would give me that look and he would just say. Really, really? Yes. Let's, let's, let's talk about that and what that would do. And you even do this to me, you know, they help you see where your thinking is incomplete, where your ego might be creeping in, where fear Yeah.

Might be driving decisions where you might be over. Thinking it or underreacting. And it helps to normalize uncertainty where, you know, frankly, many CEOs, many leaders assume that, Hey, you know, experienced leaders have all the answers. The truth is the best leaders simply just don't know or are how to ask the better questions and when to slow down before acting a strong mentor like yourself, like myself in, in working with, uh, startup CEOs, give a permission to say.

I don't know. Right. I don't know the answer to that yet. And that permission alone can dramatically improve decision quality. So, um, you know, thing, you know, surround yourself with the best talent and then frankly, find, identify and find good mentors to help you become a better leader.

[00:21:49] Mike Richardson: Yeah. And, and I love, I love, love all of that.

Uh, beautiful. And, and it, somewhere in there you mentioned, you know, mentors are mirrors. Indeed. One of the ways that everybody, that I like to describe what a peer group is, is I call it a hall of mirrors, uh, where you've got, you know, 12, 15, 18 non-competing CEOs across a diversity of different sectors of the life sciences, you know, um, uh, ecosystem, um, uh, of different.

Have as much diversity as possible. So there'll be smaller companies and larger companies. There'll be, you know, um, uh, global companies and local companies. There'll be, you know, gender, ethnicity, age, tenure. Uh, we want as much diversity as we can get because that's where the power of peers and the power of collective intelligence comes from.

There'll be common threads, of course, as we talked about. Post series A, series B, et cetera, et cetera. Um, uh, there's a affinity around the, the, the nature of the challenge, the nature of the industry, the nature of the business. Um, but because of that diversity, uh, that's where the power of Pierce comes from.

And, and as I said, I like to call it a hall of mirrors, in that the forum leader facilitates the process. Everybody where. Members are bringing their biggest challenges, their biggest opportunities, their biggest issues. We're processing what we call cases, which is where we, we process the issues that are on their plate.

And, uh, we take that through a particular methodology and a particular flow, uh, where we ask clarifying questions. We give input and, and, and experiences and stories and suggestions. And it becomes a whole of mirrors, everybody, because every clarifying question. But gets asked of a member doesn't just land on the member, it doesn't just land on, um, the, uh, the, the member asking the question.

It reverberates around and it lands on everybody. And, um, uh, it becomes a real hall of mirrors. And every suggestion, every idea, every, every story, every experience that gets shared doesn't just land on the member receiving it. Or the member giving it, it reverberates around and lands on everybody. And so, um, it, it just becomes a very powerful, um, uh, font of, of, of insights and wisdom and challenges and accountability and a fantastic process, David.

And that's what you see in three SCEO 360, and that's what we're gonna see in this ref forum.

[00:24:35] David Crean: Yeah. And frankly, you know, that similar model of what we're doing with ref. I take that similar, uh, unpacking I, we call it a hot seat. Uh, but it's that same thing. Yeah. What is your issue? And we, we really just unpack it by asking a lot of clarifying questions.

Take that onion and peel it back and yeah. It's a, it's what's interesting sometimes when you ask the CEO, who's bringing up this issue, what they think the issue is, many times it's not the issue. Yep. And going through that process, you really help them. But also because it is a, a room full of mirrors, many other CEOs are also looking at themself and going, holy crap.

I, I think I might have that same issue. And so that's, that, that is the power of it. And you know, frankly, there's some really tough discussions that go around in the, in that room. I can tell you some, some really tough, tough discussions dealing with. Whether it's with, you know, board issues and dealing with a tough board member that they wanna get rid of as a CEO, and I have to remind the CEO that they report to the board.

Um, or, you know, A CEO is dealing with a, um, someone in their C-suite that is, has gone awol, which is a very difficult discussion. Um, and you know, when somebody on the management team is no longer around, um, not because they don't wanna be there, it's just they have maybe some ongoing personal issues.

That's a real challenge. And then, you know, even recently with, um, you know, an experience that, uh, I've, I've had is, you know, somebody, um, unfortunately had, um, committed suicide, uh, of, uh, not, not a CEO, but somebody affiliated with the CEO. Um, and that impacts the CEO personally, professionally, their mindset, how they, uh, move forward.

And we're dealing with that. And so I call it therapy, right? CEO therapy. Um, and those are just, you know, sort of a, you know, the cornucopia of things that we're dealing with beyond just, Hey, what's your deck, you know, your corporate decks look like, and who do you need to go out to raise money? It's, it's all over the map, so it's pretty little, just a couple.

It's pretty powerful.

[00:26:56] Mike Richardson: Yeah. A couple of little stories just to double down on some of that. Everybody, um, as you already know, listeners, I, I facilitate my own forums, you know, in San Diego, in addition to being a partner there. I also facilitate forums up here in, in Temecula, Murrieta, where I live. And, um, two quick stories.

Uh, I built a group up here of, of 17 CEOs over the last year. I had, uh, had a big event a couple of weeks ago, uh, and then I had a one-to-one with one of my CEOs, uh, last night actually, uh, over a glass of wine. And, uh, she had just had a, her annual evaluation with her board. She's been in the group about a year, and she said, Mike, I got the most stellar annual review with my board that I've ever had.

And she said that they verbalized how much they noticed she was growing, and she said, Mike, but it's um, in a very intangible way. She said it's almost like inner growth. She said, what I'm noticing is by just being in a room with other CEOs in non-competing businesses. None of them are in my industry.

None of them are in my business. Just being in the room with them and realizing that they're all facing struggles. It's not just me. I'm not alone, and if they can figure this stuff out, then I can figure this stuff out. And she said it's just more about having a sort of inner comfort, confidence, composure that I don't chance to have all the answers what I have to be building.

It's the capability and capacity to figure out the answers as we go. And she said, it's that which the board is most noticing and giving me kudos for. And she said, that is the most surprising aspect of the value that I've had from being a, a member of this forum for the last year. She said, I expect it.

I'm not surprised to have got. All kinds of strategic and technical and tactical value, which, and I'm, I was, I'm so surprised to have this deep inner value of just feeling more composed and confident than ever before. And so that, that's, uh, just so, so humbling to hear that kinda stuff. And then another gentleman, very, very smart gentleman, ex-military.

Or or former Marine. Once a Marine. Or is a Marine, yeah. Hoorah. Helicopter, helicopter pilot including, um, Marine One Helicopter pilot. Wow. Flying President Iran. And, uh, he, he's been with the group for about, uh, um, a year and. At the end of, I think it wasn't last month's meeting, it was the month before that he, we were finishing off the meeting, we were closing everything out.

He raised his hand and said, Mike, Mike, Mike, I, sorry, I just need a minute here. I've gotta say something. He said, you know, a year ago when you, when when I first became aware of this, and we first started talking, he said, you know, I was very skeptical. He says, I've had so much leadership training in my life, you know, through being in the military.

Then in, in, in, as part of the, he's, he's a franchisee of, part of a larger corporation. You know, he gets a lot of corporate stuff and training. He says, I've had so much of that stuff, I was very skeptical about where there'd be anything new here. And he said three months in, you know, I still wasn't con, you know, convinced and I was still a little skeptical, but, but you know, I decided, you know, with your nudging, I decided to join.

Sort of wait and see in a wait and see kind of mode. He said, here I am. A year later, he said, I have completely flipped. I'm a 100% advocate of this. And it's just been amazing. And so again, everybody that's listening to this and, and if you are a life sciences, CEO. You are, you know, wondering how, how can this be valuable?

Maybe, perhaps you've never had a true peer group, peer power, collective intelligence experience before and you're a little skeptical, maybe a lot skeptical. Um. You're, you're, you're sort of a bit, well, you know, what am I really gonna learn here? You know, strategically and tactically and, and, you know, we're really gonna learn, you know, this inner journey stuff.

Uh, just put all that judgment on, hold everybody suspend judgment and come and stick your toe in the water with us because, uh, you like those two members I just talked about, you will be very, very, very pleasantly surprised at just how powerful this is. What, what would you throw, throw on the fire all David, David.

[00:32:09] David Crean: You know, uh, I, I have mentored, uh, in life sciences now upward of 140, close to 150 CEOs I can give you. Um, and many of those also are involved with ai, which is obviously an, yeah, just an, an exploding area. I can give you a handful of testimonials. Um, and, and, you know, live use cases to say, wow, I have never gone through this before.

And it's pretty damn powerful to sit in a room with like-minded individuals who are going through the same thing and, you know. Our form of confidentiality in life sciences is different than what you just explained because now you have non-comp, you know, companies in non-competing industries. Yeah.

Where I now have CEOs in life sciences, so they're all in the same sector, but we still have. Companies which are non-competitive to one another. So I'm not gonna have a cell and gene therapy company, a CEO going up against another cell and gene therapy company. Exactly. Yeah. It's gonna be, it's still, we maintain confidentiality and, and not competitive, but it is in this circle of trust and Yeah.

Um, you know, just, it, it's incredible how powerful that is. And where these, these CEOs are now friends and they're getting together outside of the forum, outside of the monthly, to either in a social event to have cocktails or coffee, um, or they're meeting at, uh, you know, association meetings or other, uh, events within the ecosystem and their bonding.

That is pretty damn incredible. It's all around because we've created a form, we've created a trusting environment. Yeah. And they're becoming friends. Yeah. And that's pretty incredible because, you know, let's just be honest, CEOs of a company, you, you're on an island by yourself. Um, that's the biggest thing that I ever, that I always hear.

It's like I don't know who to turn to. Uh, yes, I can turn to my, my board, but there's always that. How much do I disclose? I can turn to my advisors that I'm paying, or maybe they're paying 'em inequity, but there's always that. I don't know what I, what what, what is personal? Where's that line between personal and professional?

Yeah. They can always be a hidden agenda,

[00:34:42] Mike Richardson: right?

[00:34:42] David Crean: Because, yeah, so because there's

[00:34:44] Mike Richardson: a vested interest. That's right. It's not, it's not clean. There's a bias, there's a vested interest. There's, there's, there may be even a conflict of interest. Right. Uh, you know, in it's somewhere lurking in the conversation that isn't allowing it to be as pure and clean and, and, um, trusted as it as it can be in a peer, in a peer forum.

Yeah. Well said. Um. So, yeah, indeed everybody. So, you know, if this is remotely sort of, um, peaking your interest, um, we've got a couple of opportunities coming up if you happen to be listening to this. Before our Taste of forum event that we've got, uh, next week. What, what's that again, David? Is it the seven?

It's

[00:35:27] David Crean: December 18th. It's in, uh, Carmel Valley of, uh, area of San Diego. It's gonna be at the offices of Sne and Wilmer on, uh, Thursday the 18th from nine o'clock until 12.

[00:35:39] Mike Richardson: Yes. If you happen to be listening to this before that date, everybody then uh. And you're available to join us, then obviously drop a line to my, to David and, and or myself.

Uh, don't worry if you miss that because going into next year, we're gonna have plenty of opportunities for you to come along and explore this. Uh, probably starting in January or February. Uh, and then we'll get the, we'll get the form going proper and it will become a monthly, a monthly, uh, meeting for half a day.

Uh, and, uh, you know, by, by talking to David and exploring membership, then you've got the opportunity to come and, and be a guest and sort of, uh, play along and, and, um, you know, make that final, final decision. It, it is the kind of thing as we're articulating David, isn't it? It's the kind of thing what is very hard, everybody to fully intellectualize.

What is this and how does it work and why do people do it? And how can it be so valuable? Uh, it is very hard to fully intellectualize that until you have experience of it yourself in an immersive way. You're not sort of in the bleachers, you know, as an observer, you're on the field playing all in with the process and experiencing how powerful it is, as David knows already.

As we said earlier, I've been doing this work with peer forums now, and, and David certainly has, you know, for many years too, as you've heard, I've been doing this work now since 2003, so 22 years I've been doing this work with forums and I've had members with me for as long as 15 years, 12 years, 10 years, eight years.

Uh, those new members, you know, of the group that I just formed over the last year up here in Temecula, Marietta. You know, the, the we, everybody that has joined has stayed so far. Everybody. And, you know, of course people leave for different reasons at different times. Of course, every, ultimately, everybody leaves at some point because they've sold their business or they've retired or whatever it is, or they've moved out of town.

But I, you know, I, I expect that most of those members will be in that form for a very, very, very long time. And possibly like you, David, some of those members will fall in love with the process so much. The power of it so much that they will want to become forum leaders themselves. You know, as they sort of semi-retire perhaps from running the kind of business they're running today, but they don't wanna fully retire.

Um, they, they will be raising their hands to say, Hey, you know, as you expand, Mike, uh, we'd like to run. I'd like to run a forum. I've already had a few people tell me that 'cause they fall in love with the process so much. What else was front of mind for you, David, that you wanted to mention here in terms of.

How, you know, uh, what we're gonna be doing, who we're gonna be doing it with, why you are so passionate about this. Were there other things front of mind that you wanted to

[00:38:36] David Crean: mention? Yeah. You know, going into 2026, I, what I wanted do was talk about from a life science perspective, what I see as consistent themes going into it.

Because what we've seen in 2025. And then how does that impact you as a CEO if you're listening in the life science segment and, you know, um, going into a life science peer-to-peer format forum, how we could potentially be helping you? Uh, first and foremost, one of the consistent themes that we're seeing, I would see the market right now is pretty challenging.

Um, whe whether it's in the public or, or the private capital markets and the market. Demands rigorous prioritization with what you're doing as an organization. CEO is more articulate exactly how each dollar is basically reducing risk and or creating value. Secondly, you have investor communication needs to be balanced.

Many CEOs either over communicate without any clarity. Or they under communicate based out of fear. And the real skill is calibrating, transparency, confidence, and realism. Uh, third that you have a, a theme of operational overwhelm, especially in the area of life science with advanced modalities, you have cell and gene therapy, you have complex biologics.

You have all these Glip ones with for obesity and diabetes and you know, they're even applying it to neurogen degeneration that require deep manufacturing supply expertise, CMC, what they call and regulatory supply chain capabilities that many teams frankly treat, um, as an afterthought or they underestimate.

Um, I Third, you have talent and culture. Which is, uh, under pressure, scientific teams are frankly fatigued. Um, you know, they're not paid very well as they're trying to go out and raise money. Leadership transitions are very, very common. Um, many companies are frankly shutting down 'cause they're not, um, being able to, uh, uh, you know, bring in capital.

And so you have this emotional and operational burden, which is heavier. Than ever before. And frankly, as a leader, there's a lot of, just a lot of loneliness in that leadership. And that is, might be the most underestimated challenge. And the higher you go, the fewer and fewer people that you can talk to.

So I think the, the opportunity is, you know, connect. CEOs to a system or an ecosystem, if you will, that reduces that burden. Yeah. And hopefully elevates their decision quality.

[00:41:28] Mike Richardson: Yeah. I love what you just said about those five things, and, and not least of all the last one. Uh, the higher you go, the less and less people.

I, I remember one of our rest, uh, forum leaders. Expressed that he was a very successful CEO and, uh, of a medical device company actually. Um, and, uh, he equated it to this. He said, the more, the more senior I got, he said, the more I felt like an only child. He said, you know, when I was a manager, when I was an executive, I felt like I had siblings up and down the hallway.

Then as I became a CEO, there was no other siblings up and down the hallway. I was it. He said, yes, as part of a bigger corporation. I had siblings in other cities and other places, and we would see each other once a year for the annual conference and all of that, and drink a beer. But I didn't have a. Can I stick my head in your office for, and do you have a minute?

You know, can we shut the door and have a sibling to sibling kind of conversation. I didn't have that. So I love that. And indeed, when I, when we're together at the, um, session on December the 18th, which you mentioned, we'll do a little bit of orientation and I like to use some data from Korn Ferry who did a study in 2024.

It was a global study of 10,000 CEOs and executives. And they wrote a, uh, a blog about the sub-segment of the USA data that came from that study, and they basically reported this 71% of USA CEOs across all sectors self-report that they experience imposter syndrome. They are faking it. Until they make it not good.

And the title of the blog that they wrote was, it's Lonely at the Top. There you go and talks about what you've just said and, and that is the most. Common phrase, unprompted by me when I'm, you know, over the 22 years I've been doing this, I've spoken to hundreds, if not thousands of members and prospective members looking to join forums.

And the most common phrase unprompted by me is they will typically say, you know, if I ask them, well, what, what is it that's causing you to be interested in this? And they'll typically say, I gotta tell you, Mike, it's lonely at the top. That is such, it's not just a cliche, everybody. It is such a reality, and that's really what those two members I was telling stories about from my group up here.

That's really what they're saying. You know, the biggest difference is I feel less alone in trying to go on this challenging journey in business and life. I just feel less alone and that is half of the challenge. So, um, uh, anything else that you had front of mind, David, that you wanted to mention?

[00:44:34] David Crean: No, just, you know, just some final comments.

You know, first of all, thank you, Mike, for the conversation and you know, for the platform that you and your two partners, uh, mark and Susan have created to bring these leadership stories to life. Um. Life science CEOs are really at the crossroads of a, a great time of innovation as well as uncertainty right now.

And their decisions impact not only companies but investors, their employees, and ultimately patients. You know, they're these CEOs and their companies that they're creating are ultimately impacting patients in their lives, whether it's from diagnostics or therapeutics, what have you. Um, and that responsibility can both be.

Inspiring, but it can also be overwhelming. And no CEO should have to shoulder that alone. And you know, so what you and I are talking about this creating this ref life science CEO forum, it's being designed to make leadership less isolating as we were just talking about, and more intentional. I love intentionality.

Give CEOs structure support. Collective intelligence that they need to navigate complexity with clarity and confidence. That's, it's that simple. So I'm excited about what we're building, uh, together and I appreciate the opportunity to share that with you and your listenership today.

[00:46:00] Mike Richardson: Yeah. Well, thank you man, and great to have you here.

And by the way, everybody, if you are a, a life sciences, CEO and you're listening to this and you kind of like what you hear, but then, then you say, what? But hang on a minute. I'm so busy dealing with all of those things that David just laid out. I don't have time to go to a half day forum. Uh, we just want you to understand when you, when you're in that hall of mirrors, everybody, everybody else in the room would just smirk and laugh and say, really?

That's sort of like saying, I'm, I don't have time to go to a time management workshop. Right. That's going to be a self-fulfilling, self-defeating prophecy where you are gonna serve a life sentence of not having time. And, um, one of the things that, uh, one of the stories I like to tell that you've probably heard me tell David is that you just mentioned Mark, Mark Nielsen, who's one of our equity partners with, with myself and Susan Illa in Ref San Diego.

Mark joined my group. I think it was 2006, 2007, he came along for his first meeting, you know, as a guest, like we said, that, that, uh, life sciences CEOs will be able to do with your forum that you are launching. He came along for his first meeting, uh, after I'd been sort of, you know, chatting with him and nurturing the idea and sort of, and, and gradually said, okay, I'm rea I'm ready to come and, you know, check this out.

Came along to this first meeting, stayed the whole session. Played along beautifully. You know, immersed himself in the process, fit in real well. Um, very positive feeling. You know, as he left, I get a voicemail from him the following morning, um, uh, saying, Mike, I think I've made a terrible mistake. I don't think I have time for this.

Obviously he got back to his desk, you know, that night or the following morning over, you know, his inbox was overflowing with emails. His voicemail light was blinking at him. You know, he's got, he's got all kinds of stuff blowing up on his. Whatever kind of cell phone he had back then, you know, nearly 20 years ago, and, and he's concluded, I don't have time for this, so he leaves me a voicemail.

Of course I call him back. I don't get him, of course, you know, he's busy doing stuff. Yeah. So I leave him a voicemail saying, mark, I just invite you to suspend judgment about that, and I invite you to wonder whether this is part of your time management problem or part of your time management solution. I invite you.

To just come along and try it, you know, for a few months with an open-minded approach. Just like that skeptical member that I spoke about up here. I did the same with him. I said, just do me a favor, just come along and try it for a few months with an open-mindedness. And then 12 months later, he's completely flipped into from a skeptic into an advocate.

So I said the same with Mark. Not only did he come along and try it for a few months, everybody. He stayed for 12 years, became the biggest advocate of the experience, so much so that he then led the charge. There's a longer story here, but he was so passionate about the peer group experience that he led the charge of buying Ref San Diego, uh, from the previous owner.

Doing what we're doing today. And obviously David knows Mark well and vice versa. And, uh, mark is, Susan and I are so excited to have David coming into the mix here. Um, so everybody, if you are thinking I don't have time for this, uh, we invite you to suspend judgment on that, the 2% of your time or less.

'cause none of you work a short week, the 2% of your time or short day rather the 2% of your time or less that you invest in going to a half day meeting once a month. Will help the other 98% of your time be so much more strategic, so much more confident, so much more courageous, so much more organized, and so much more composed.

Uh, you, you will easily get a payback on not only your time, but the, the investment. Um, and, uh. You know, so much so that, you know, mark stayed for 12 years. There you go. I love telling that story. I must have told it a hundred times. So now we have it, everybody. Um, what a delight to have David with us today.

Thank you so much, David, for sharing all of your experiences, your journey, your insights, your passion, your purpose for why you're launching this, uh, CEO forum specifically. For life sciences, CEOs are on the journey, you know, at, at least on their way to series A and series B, if not beyond. Yep. And, uh, all of the, uh, all of the elements of the challenge and the conversation and the process that, uh, that we will be getting into everybody.

If that has piqued your interest, then uh, reach out to David. Uh, we'll make sure that his contact information is in the show notes here, or you can easily find him in LinkedIn. Uh, David Crane. And, uh, thanks for being here, everybody listening to this episode, and we look forward to having you back the next episode of the Peering podcast.

Thanks so much. Thank you everybody.