The Peering Podcast

Episode 5 -
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Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Peering podcast. I am really excited today we are gonna explore the challenges of technology leaders and we have nobody better to explore that with than Scott Kratz. I've known Scott for a few years. We'll talk a little bit more in a moment about how we met.

[00:00:57] Mike Richardson (): Uh, uh, and in particular what I'm really excited about is Scott is a forum leader of a ref peer forum, specifically for very unusually specifically for technology leaders. And we're gonna explore all of that. So welcome Scott Kratz.

[00:01:15] Scott Krawitz: Excellent. Thank you, Mike. Such a pleasure to be here.

[00:01:17] Mike Richardson (): Great to have you, my friend. Now, um, I'm a bit vague. Uh, when and how did you and I first meet Scott? It's certainly a few years ago.

[00:01:27] Scott Krawitz: Yeah, so I, I leveraged the, uh, the email time machine, as they call it, and I found, um, I think we in advisor group together in

[00:01:35] Mike Richardson (): There it is.

[00:01:36] Scott Krawitz: back.

[00:01:37] Mike Richardson (): There it is. ' cause we'd both been hanging around this world of peer groups and peer forums for quite some time, and love it so much. That's why we're so dedicated to it. let's start with this, uh, Scott, how did you get to where you are today? Tell us a little bit about your career. Tell us about, uh, what you do today and we'll go from there.

So that's, how did you get here, Scott?

[00:02:05] Scott Krawitz: Yeah. Perfect. Well, it's been been a bit of a winding road, Mike, but um, you know what I like to say that I do currently is I work with people and companies that are growing. Growing frustrated, or usually both of those things are happening at the same time. Right. And working with them to be the best versions of themselves.

Right. So, you know, unpacking that a little on the technology side, I act as a fractional chief technology officer helping companies that don't have one AI and tech roadmaps. And on the people side, I, you know, discovered this passion for executive coaching about 10 years ago. So, so I do that, you know, one-on-one, be a Center for Creative leadership, and then in the group setting, as you mentioned, with, uh, REF and the technology peer group.

And, uh, just, just love that. Uh, also, you know, I do have a, a startup called BHMS. It's, uh, electronic medical record for residential addiction treatment

[00:02:57] Mike Richardson (): wow.

[00:02:58] Scott Krawitz: Yeah, so we just, um, you know, my partner has a couple of those homes. We've run it in his homes for a year or so. We just launched and got our first couple customers, so that's, that's scratching my entrepreneurial itch right now.

[00:03:08] Mike Richardson (): Just tell, just just repeat that and tell us a little bit more about what that's all about.

[00:03:13] Scott Krawitz: Uh, yeah, sure. So, you know, at at heart, I'm, I'm, I'm an entrepreneur and so, uh, I have a partner who has a couple, uh, you know, addiction treatment centers out in Arizona. And, you know, it's for folks that are kind of going through recovery from, from an addiction. They're there for six to 18 months. And, you know, I mean, uh, a lot of these centers, Mike, they're like, they're like 10 bed homes.

So someone will go and get a license for a residential home, could be in any neighborhood really, uh, for up to 10 residents. And then, you know, they're helping them with like therapy and diet and just kind of getting 'em back on their feet. And, you know, they're, they're amazing. But the thing is, there's, there's a lot of compliance risk.

There's a lot of administrative overhead, right? You're talking 24 hour care. And so a lot of these places, you know, they're not investing in, in big technology platforms. I mean, they're taking like, um, notes maybe in a notes platform for psychologists, but then they're managing medications literally on a clipboard.

And they've got, everything's all over the place, which, you know, some of them muddle through it, but then you get a knock on the door from Department of Health or something. It derails them literally for like a week. Uh, so, so the idea with this platform, it's built buy-in for these folks. Um, it's just what you need.

Nothing more. Very easy with the compliance from resident intake through discharge. So my, my friend who I've known for years approached me and we've partnered to build this thing and just, uh, get it out into

[00:04:33] Mike Richardson (): Wow. That's really cool, man. So you are really, you're really practicing what you preach and, and that's just a fantastic, uh, uh, noble cause that you are working on and. Being able to bring technology, you know, to that, um, to that situation is just, is just is really cool. And then, uh, you mentioned another great brand name, obviously you mentioned Ref, which is a great brand name, but you mentioned another great brand name, the Center for Creative Leadership.

So tell us a little bit more about what you do with them.

[00:05:04] Scott Krawitz: Yeah, sure. So it was an, an interesting journey and I, I honestly, Mike, I do challenge sometimes tell, uh, I do have a challenge sometimes f figuring out how to tell the story. So, you know, about, about 10 years ago I was, uh, doing a fractional CTO engagement and the client said, look, we're, we're happy to get a roadmap, but we really want you to coach our director of technology.

And honestly, I didn't even really know what coaching was. I knew a few coaches in my network and I, you know, I knew management for my company. But, so I, I kind of got some, you know, bits and, uh, pieces from them muddled through it. And at the end, this company had a good technology roadmap, but this guy, just by asking him some open-ended questions, you know, had some great ahas and I was like, wow, I, I have to learn to do this.

So, you know, I took my own time and money and, and, you know, did a whole coaching certification. Started coaching at leadership conferences and about. Five years ago, a, uh, just a mentor of mine, um, introduced me to Center for Creative Leadership. And, you know, these guys have just been around for like, you know, 50 years.

It's a nonprofit org. They, they coach a lot of the Fortune one thousands, like, and sometimes these programs I'm coaching and it's the first time someone's actually acting as a manager. So it's just, it just lights me up to be able to kind of support these folks on their journey. So I, I act as a, an executive coach in, in that setting, generally on these, uh, emerging leader programs or middle manager programs where we unpack their 360 and basically help them figure out what's that one thing that's really kind of like, you know, impeding their growth to help them get to the next level.

Yeah.

[00:06:27] Mike Richardson (): us back further, Scott, I mean, what was your, what was your career path before all of this?

[00:06:34] Scott Krawitz: Uh, well, well, I, I, I was the kid with the Commodore 64 in sixth grade, while other kids were at recess. I was in there, you know, entering, entering code from these, uh, you know, magazines. Right? You'd have to enter in the, uh, like the basic code. Um, but, but then, you know, when I went to college, I just saw tech was moving so fast that I was like, you know what?

By the time I get an education in computer science, it's gonna be. Uh, you, you know, you know, gone. So, yeah, so I, I, I did the broadest thing I could find, which was a Bachelor of Arts in Economics. And, um, then, you know, my, my, my dad was an attorney. I was always inspired by the law. So I decided to, uh, to go to law school to maybe focus on intellectual property law, I mean, combining computers and law.

And I, I finished the first year of that and decided that, uh, I'd probably rather be building technology than pro, protecting it with the law. You know, no harm or foul to folks that do that. And so, uh, yeah, I became a law school dropout. And, um, from that point, uh, you know, I actually, I had a, a really unique opportunity to work in Australia.

Um, yeah, like on a working holiday visa, you know, it was meant for anybody that was within one semester of school. So I went over there and, you know, people in the program, early twenties, getting jobs as lifeguards or waiters. So I, I went to a staffing agency and I had a, a Microsoft certification. They found me a three month project at a, um, uh, basically the Asia Pacific headquarters for a, a US software company named Rational Software, which was, uh, acquired by IBM later.

Um, so I worked for them for a couple years. They sponsored my business visa. Um, got to travel all over the world and, um. You know, decided though that Australia was not the place that I really wanted to start a family. So, uh, came back, uh, lived in New York City for about five years. Um, worked for a systems integrator.

Um, the guy was great and he said yes to every project. So we were like a 20 person company working these big companies, and he would say yes. And then I was in charge of working with his team of engineers to just go figure it out. So, you know, it felt like kind of like 10 years of experience and three or four.

With that though, you know, I always had this entrepreneurial urge and I thought to myself, okay, I, I know kind of maybe not how to not run a business. I'd like to know how to, so then I went to a school called Thunderbird. Uh, which is a school of international management, uh, and did a, did an MBA there and love that because it was, I was able to leverage the global, uh, experience I had from Australia with, uh, you know, the, the, the business, uh, element.

So, I mean, just for example, Mike, there were 300 kids from 30 countries in my career. And if you know anything about business school, you know, it's like every

[00:09:13] Mike Richardson (): I've been to business school. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:09:15] Scott Krawitz: You too Oh, amazing. So, you know, a lot of it, like at least the school is group work. So they would literally say, okay, I wanna see at least five countries represent every project.

It was, it was amazing. Um, so yeah. Then, then after that, you know, went, went back to uh, New York for a bit, then came to San Diego to start, uh, my first startup, which was a loan pricing engine for mortgage brokers. So if you've ever gotta get a mortgage and you work with a broker, you know, they've got like a hundred lenders that they work with, and, uh, each one, you know, has their rate sheets and you need an engineering degree to read these things, right. So I saw the opportunity, I had some friends in the business, and so we built this engine that would take all the rate sheets, pull them in, and then you could qualify and price it. But you know that, that actually did not work out as a business. I worked on it for about three years and then, uh, the subprime crisis hit.

And I learned the value of, of timing. So I mean, great product. We had a couple great clients and then just, you know, with subprime, uh, a lot of the mortgage brokers were closing their doors. Um, so I had to go back to, you know, my roots, which was, uh, technology and consulting. So I started, um, you know, a business where we did, uh, IT staffing.

We did custom software development and we did fractional CTO

[00:10:34] Mike Richardson (): Okay.

[00:10:35] Scott Krawitz: I ran that for about 10 years, and then right around, uh, 2020, you know, I found that. All three of those were probably better run as businesses on their own. And I was just taking on too much at once. And, um, you know, my, I had probably some delusions of grandeur and, and I basically ran the business into a wall.

I mean, it was a great journey. We were Inc 5,000, we were San Diego Business Journal, top of the, all this stuff. And then I just. You know, I mean, I was taking money from the profitable divisions to do marketing for the others, and it all worked in my head, but it didn't work out, so I had to close that business at the same time I was filing for divorce.

At the same time, COVID hit at the same time. I started a new company. So, um, you know, with, with all that and, and the coaching journey, it just, it, it taught me a lot about, um, looking at, you know, being very, very intentional about what it is that you want and understanding that really, I feel like, you know, inside we're all already enough and we already have enough, and then it's just really a matter of finding, you know, the intersection of your passion.

And experience that can get you where you're going. So a long answer to your question, that's kind of how

[00:11:48] Mike Richardson (): but a great answer and, and, and listeners, this is why we are just so excited. To have Scott, uh, as our forum leader of our technology leader, uh, peer group, specifically for technology leaders, because, just, just, just listen to the breadth and depth of experience that, that Scott brings to the table. Not just with technology, but with human stuff, with people, stuff with leadership stuff and, and the, you know, the experiences that he's been through.

That he can bring to the table. Not that it's about just the forum leader. Obviously the forum leader facilitates the power of the peers in the room, but to have someone that is able to come to the table as the forum leader, that's sort of, you know, to some degree been there and done that, walked in those shoes, uh, gone on that journey, that rollercoaster ride that it always is, uh, means, uh, means it's very.

It's very powerful. And let me actually skip ahead a little bit, Scott, and, and ask you a bit more about, so what's your why for being so passionate about facilitating peer forums? What, what's your, what's your purpose? What's your why for doing this kind of work?

[00:13:07] Scott Krawitz: Yeah, thanks for asking, Mike. It's a great question. So I feel like my why is, is connecting with people and connecting people with each other, um, in service of, of their growth. So, um, you know, along along the journey, I, I, I skipped a few things there in our, in, in the story, but, you know, I actually was, uh, a member.

Or originally of Renaissance Executive Forum was the first forum I was in, uh, many years ago with, uh, with, with Jim Tenuto. And, and, you know, it was my first experience and, and really just being able to have my answers questioned as he used to put it was, was just great. And, and from there, you know, I just became, uh.

Quite enamored with the, uh, with the peer group experience. I mean, if your friends are entrepreneurs, for example, or tech leaders, you know, it's great to be able to speak to them, but, but sometimes, you know, they're, they're, they're gonna tell you what you wanna hear or they might lack context.

Right? Um, sometimes it can be hard to talk to your, you know, partner, spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever. And that they, they wanna be there for you and maybe they'll commiserate with you. Maybe they understand, maybe they don't. Or maybe it's something that would affect that relationship and you just don't have a safe place to share.

So, I mean, you know, the trust, the comradery, the collective wisdom that's, that's in the room in these groups is second to none. And I mean, I, I just went all in. So, I mean, in addition to Renaissance, I think. We've talked before, you know, I've, I've been a member of eo, I've been a member of Vistage Sage. I was a facilitator for seven CTOs, all these groups.

And really it was as much a thirst for the experience as it was trying to see, you know, how can I contribute to this? How can I, you know, make a forum experience and specifically for technology leaders, that helps them be the best version of themselves. 'cause I mean, as a, as a tech leader. I mean, still in organizations, a lot of orgs don't have the tech leader as a C-Suite role.

It's under the CFO, it's under the director of operations. And some of these folks I've, I've talked to 'em and they're the members of the group where like, they're amazing and in their own right, they are an executive and they just don't get leveled up like that. So I think the opportunity to support them like that, given my own journey and what, and you know, if I can bring any of that back to the technology community, I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm doing my

[00:15:23] Mike Richardson (): Oh, beautiful. Wow. It's, it's just amazing. I mean, you've, as I said at the start of this episode, you've been hanging around at peer, the peer group, peer forum, peer advisory board experience for many, many, many years. As you said, you, you've been involved with numerous different organizations. Uh, listeners you've heard, um, Scott refer to Renaissance Executive Forums, which then rebranded itself to REF Ref, which is, which is who we're both with today.

And obviously listeners know, I think already that, um, you know, you mentioned Vistage and I was a Vistage chair for 15 years, as you said earlier, that's where we first met, uh, with what you call a, a trusted advisor group for sort of professional service providers. And, um, so that, so here we are, everybody.

We're talking now specifically about this group that, uh, that, that Scott facilitates, uh, a peer group experience specifically for technology leaders getting together for half a day per month in person. it's confidential. Um, there are no competitors in the room. Uh, so, uh, people can come into that room and be totally transparent, not just about business, but also professionally, personally, and about life, because as we all know, and you've been articulating through your own stories, Scott, and your own activities, you know, business professional, personal life is just one tangled web

[00:16:53] Scott Krawitz: Yeah,

[00:16:53] Mike Richardson (): of everything.

[00:16:54] Scott Krawitz: well said. Well said

[00:16:55] Mike Richardson (): And often it's, um, it's, you know, you've gotta be amongst trusted. Um, peers to sort of help untangle that. And you know what we hear all the time, everybody is that Oh yeah. You know, I, obviously, I interact with my management team. Obviously I interact with the board, obviously I interact with my, my buddies down the golf club perhaps, or, or whatever, or church or whatever it is.

But typically I don't get the time and space from those folks. To be able to be fully present with the scale and scope of challenge I'm dealing with and have unbiased input from peers who care about me and I trust and, and to a large degree can relate to what I'm going through. So that's the, that's the power of the peers process, everybody.

And you know, Scott, obviously you've been touching upon. From your own experience, some of the real world in the trenches, challenges that technology leaders face and are facing in particular now, as you know, AI starts to go exponential. Um, and obviously it's these kinds of things that this peer forum will will be wrestling with.

So. What kinds of things are front of mind for you, Scott, in terms of the challenges that, that these members and, and potential members are having to wrestle with every single day these days?

[00:18:26] Scott Krawitz: Yeah, good question, Mike. So, okay. Yeah. Speaking from the perspective, uh, as a, as a technology leader, entrepreneur, and also just, um, generally what I've seen in this space, uh, one is getting that seat at the table, like I've mentioned, right? I mean, how do you act as something more than the, uh, the, the technology plumber?

In the organization. Right. A lot of times, you know, I, I, I, I work, you know, in a fractional CTO practice with a lot of, you know, CFOs and CEOs and a lot of 'em, still technology is seen as a necessary evil and not really like a strategic differentiator. It's getting much better with ai. Mind you, but, but still, it's a conversation, right?

So I think that's the first thing. How do you get that seat at the table? So how do you manage up? How do you influence the folks that you're working with, and how do you convince them that, that you know what you're talking about and you deserve a seat at that table? Because, you know, I mean, technology can be a revenue stream, it can help with customer retention, it can be used on the outside. much as the inside. You know, the other thing is, um, how do you help leadership understand that employees are technology customers as well? That turnover hurts. I mean, what's the stat? It's five times more expensive to hire someone, uh, new. And when you, you know, uh, when you fire them, right? So how do you do that retention?

And so if you have employees that are relying heavily on technology to do their job. You can have the best culture in the world, give 'em the best resources, amazing team, great products, and if they're sitting there using some system from 1995. Where it takes 20 clicks to do everything, they're, they're not gonna be happy.

Right? I mean, they, they could be looking somewhere else. So I think that's the other challenge is getting, how do you convince management to see that employees or technology customers. Um, the other thing is how do you level up, right? As far as leveling up your skills on the. Human side of the house, because to your point, Mike, now with ai, we're, we're putting some pretty powerful tools in the hands of non-technology leaders, and they're being sold a bill of goods that, hey, you don't, you don't need developers.

You don't, you don't necessarily need a technology function. Go take these tools, take chat PT or NA 10 and, and go

[00:20:45] Mike Richardson (): It.

[00:20:46] Scott Krawitz: I've at it, even at Microsoft. Right? So, you know, nothing wrong with that. I love it. You know, it's like, I mean, if, if you can use that as a leader for personal productivity to get some insights, that's great.

But when you start talking about, uh, pulling in data. Highly, highly confidential data from different sources and conflating it. You know, like, and, and, and then there's a lot of issues. I've heard all kinds of horror stories about like, you know, one was this, um, this executive was considered, uh, considering selling the company.

And so he was pulling together all kinds of things within, within copilot, but didn't bound the data. And someone just went on copilot and said, Hey, if I were to sell the company, and they'll, and, and copilot responded, said, oh, well, you know, based on what I told this other guy yesterday.

[00:21:33] Mike Richardson (): wow.

[00:21:33] Scott Krawitz: Right? So, yeah, then that, that news was out, right?

So, I mean, you, you gotta be so careful.

[00:21:38] Mike Richardson (): Yeah.

[00:21:39] Scott Krawitz: And, and I'll tell you, Mike, also as like a career technologist, I've played with a lot of these, you know, like, I mean, 11 labs and doing all kinds of proofs of concept because I like to keep my hands in things. It's, it's simple, but it's not easy. I mean, you could very easily get, get lost in a lot of these things, and then you're bringing in, you know, it.

And so I, I think there's this sort of, uh, you know, this, this, this demo that's being shown that is, that is not the reality. And so. To answer your question, you know, that's the other thing. How do you support your non-technical leaders to understand that this is a technology like any other, it might be democratized, but still it needs a security.

The compliance, like the data, the change management, everything else that you need to be successful with any other technology tool.

[00:22:28] Mike Richardson (): Yeah. Loving this, loving this. I'm, you know, I, I, I'm, I'm not a technologist myself. I'm a, I'm a scientist who, you know, turned engineer, I have written a few lines of code in my, in my time, but not much. Um, but I was always, you know, the. The c, the the executive or CEO that needed, you know, new technology deployments and applications.

And I did end up running an enterprise scale software company and, and division of a division of high technology, um, solutions. And, but what you've said was exactly it that, you know, I would stand in front of, of, um, big blue chip customers, you know, globally and say, look. This isn't about technology, this is about workflow, and this is about processes and this is about people and it's gonna be about, um, resistance to change.

And it's going to be about how do you lead and manage change and communicate change, and, you know. Adopt and utilize and leverage all the possibilities that this technology gives you. Rather than what most people do is, you know, they skim the surface like we all do with things like Outlook or whatever we use.

We skim the surface and not realize how much latent power there is in this, in this thing, you know, at a deeper level. And so I love everything you've articulated and of course. All of that is going exponential right now with ai.

[00:24:04] Scott Krawitz: right now.

[00:24:05] Mike Richardson (): Bigger, faster, sooner than we could ever imagine. And so clearly the that need for the technologist to have a seat around the table is going to be increasingly more mission critical than ever.

Before, and, and I think that's why it is so timely, Scott. Um, and we're so blessed to have your commitment to, you know, lead and facilitate this, this peer forum specifically for technology leaders. you know, a shameless plug for, for the other podcasts that, uh, that I co-host called Prompt and Circumstance, where.

We, we just posted, uh, last week's episode with a special guest who you know well, Riley Strickland from Cadre ai. And, you know, he was saying exactly what, what you are saying and everybody was so blessed, uh, that, that Scott and I. Are actually gonna be co-hosting, uh, what we're, what we're calling an AI incubator later in January, uh, where Riley Strickland from KRA AI and, and a few others will be, you know, uh, facilitating a sort of demo fest, uh, to, to help our members roll up their sleeves and, and seal and see real applications of, to real processes in real businesses.

Um, and uh, just in, just inspired Scott by the fact that you and your technology members, I think you can be of real service to our bigger community of members. Um, I know you've started to do some joint meetings with, with some of our other forms, and I know my, my groups would love to have you and some of your technology members come and sit in and, and spend, you know, the half day with us.

To really have that opportunity to talk about, okay. What have I got to do to invite my technology leader to get his or her seat at my table and to fully explore all the dimensions of change leadership and change management that we're gonna have to go on with this whole AI journey. So it's gonna be, it's gonna be crucial. tell us a bit more, Scott, about, you know, how, how you plan to, to, to run this group, how you plan to. To leverage this group, this forum that you're building, uh, and just why, why you love this work so much.

[00:26:35] Scott Krawitz: Yeah, sure, Mike. And, and thanks for bringing that up. I mean, you know, one thing I've been working with, uh, that I'm gonna try to bring to the group and hopefully to, you know, ref and the, the world at large in 2026 is I've come up with this notion of conscious ai, right? It's sort of like a two-sided, uh, kind of approach.

Two, two ai. So. First it's, you know, when you're implementing ai, it's taking this like humanistic, uh, technology leader, like a, a approach, right? And that, like, to your point, it's a change management. And how do you communicate like, like a yes and proposition. So even as a technologist, when you're helping with the tools, how do you make this something where it's gonna help the current team be the best versions of themselves?

Our job's gonna be lost short, but let's make sure that the folks that are left are actually engaged. And you know, it's not this sort of like, uh, you know, sickle where we're trying to kind of just cut heads. It's more like how do we help to elevate the heads that are there? So that's something that I want to impart, uh, in the technology leader group and make that part of the conversation.

And the other side of it is, um, you know, becoming the most conscious version of yourself. As a leader, as an employee. So as AI becomes more and more talented, the one thing that it's having a real struggle replacing, and I think, you know, the human edge will always be, uh, our conscious selves. So one, one thing we're doing in our, in our forum is we've, we've started doing 10 minute opening meditations.

and at first, honestly, it wasn't, it wasn't that well received, but, so you can imagine technologists are like, what, what, what is this? Right? But I will tell you now, it is one of the most requested portions of the meeting.

Beautiful.

Where folks realize what it is to kind of drop in, you know, reflect and think about this, not only as a technology tool, but as, as a human being.

So that's, that's what I'm hoping to do with this group, to help them actually maybe even leave that lead that charge. So if there's a, you know, a CEO or a CFO who's looking at the bottom line and we just want to cut head count, or we need to kind of, you know, like for the CTO or CIO to step in and go, Hey guys, hold on.

You know, let's, let's do this consciously and responsibly. And lead by, you know, creating that culture within their team and communicating that outwards. So that, that's something that I'm looking to do. And as far as, yeah, you know, my goal for the group, the thing I love most about it, Mike, like I said, is, uh, you know, I, this, this journey, uh, my coaching journey, uh, has, has been great.

And I love the one-on-one work, but I love, uh, doing it in a group setting as well. I mean, I can think of no better place than a group of technology leaders 'cause these, these are my people, right? So this is, this is the background and I see that there's the most opportunity for them to help, um, especially with ai.

And also some of the biggest challenges as far as executive presence, communication, you know, change management, things of that nature. So that's, that's what really kind of lights me up. And, you know, ref, ref is, is the only place I've seen that, that, that offers that. So. That's my hope in growing the group in

[00:29:30] Mike Richardson (): Yeah, that's what we love, uh, in, in, in our journey with REF is that we, we can be very innovative. We can, we can sense out unmet and unserved needs. And, um, you know, we, we concluded very quickly, didn't we, that we've got these functional pillars, um, hr, sales, finance. Technology that by and large are underserved with true, with true peer forum experiences under underlying, underline the word true.

I mean, yeah, there are things out there that might call themselves peer, this, that, and the other, but the, the key, everybody is. does it run deep enough to be a true peer forum experience? And that's often hard to intellectualize until you experience it for yourself. Everybody. I've, I've been doing this work as a, as a facilitator now for 23 years and, and as you've heard, Scott has been involved with peer groups in one way or another for almost the same amount of time, I'm sure.

And, um, it's very hard to fully understand what a peer group is. And how powerful it is until you experience it for yourself and over those 23 years that I've been doing this and that you've been doing this. Uh, Scott, you know, I've had hundreds of members come to their first experience. Uh, for the first session, the first meeting, and at the end of the meeting, we turn to them and whether they're a CEO or they're a more diverse executive, or they're a technology executive, turn to them at the end of that first session, you know, as we're wrapping things up, and just ask them, so how was this for you?

And typically they give an answer that goes something like this. Wow, I didn't even know. That this kind of thing existed.

[00:31:26] Scott Krawitz: Yeah.

[00:31:27] Mike Richardson (): I've never experienced anything like this before.

[00:31:31] Scott Krawitz: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:32] Mike Richardson (): I've just met you all, but I feel like we're soulmates. feel like I've known you for quite some time already because we're all going through the same stuff

[00:31:44] Scott Krawitz: Yes.

[00:31:45] Mike Richardson (): and you know, we processed.

That person's issue. Or perhaps in some cases this brand new member will have processed an issue or what we call a case and they'll say something like, uh, the input that I got or they got from all of you was just amazing. And, um, so I think it's so powerful, everybody. And going back to what. Scott said, really coming to a peer forum for half a day, once a month is, you know, that's 2% of your time or less because not many people, you know, work a short day.

Um, and what we find everybody is that that 2% of your time. Helps the other 98% be so much more focused, so much more strategic, so much more courageous, confident, and composed. And I love what you've said, Scott. I, I'm gonna oversimplify this. Given that we're, we're talking about technologists here, we'll just use the sort of hardware, software metaphor, right?

There is the hardware element of this peer group experience where you will be talking about very, you know, tangible, tactical, technical things. No doubt. And as Scott has articulated very well, there is the software side of this, everybody where you will be talking about the, the underbelly, soft fleshy stuff or the human stuff, the leadership stuff, the communication stuff, um, uh, the paradigm shift stuff, um, uh, and all of the above.

What Scott has articulated is that his job is to facilitate the members when they come to the meeting, getting present to what's in front of them, both on the software side and the hardware side, so that they can navigate forwards more courageously, more confidently in a more composed way from here. So it's a fabulous experience.

A any other thoughts or themes that you wanted to articulate Scott, uh, around all of this?

[00:34:07] Scott Krawitz: No, I think that was, that was very well stated. It was very, uh, relatable analogy, Mike. So I appreciate you that way.

[00:34:14] Mike Richardson (): Anything else that our listeners should know?

[00:34:18] Scott Krawitz: I think, I think that's, that's, uh, that's, that's about it. Yeah. But I, I appreciate it. I think, you know, I think AI is a, is a massive. Disruptive opportunity. Um, but there is, there is a lot of noise, um, with the signal. And I'll say that even for, even for the technology leaders, um, you know, other groups I, I speak with and people that I keep in touch with.

I mean, even the technology leaders, the best some of us can do is just, is just get demos of these tools, play around with them. But, you know, there's, there's, there's a lot of noise with the signal. So my, my message to folks would, would be. Be careful, and if you are an executive or an owner of a business, uh, make sure that your technology leaders are in a, in a, in a group, ideally a group of peers where they can get some experience shares where they can talk about this.

Mike, to your point, not only on the hardware side, but also the software

[00:35:12] Mike Richardson (): Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it strikes me, Scott, and, and listeners, whether you are a technology leader yourself or you are A-A-A-A-C-E-O, um. That we're entering a new chapter where this technology seat around the table, of course, I mean, it's stating the obvious is going to. Um, grow in significance more than ever before.

We need a strong voice coming from that technology seat around the table. As you mentioned, we need those technology leaders to be leveling up because we're entering a very high stakes, uh, period of time, a very high stakes era that we can easily get wrong, and yet if we get it right. Can be truly game changing and, uh, in terms, in terms of being competitive and,

[00:36:08] Scott Krawitz: Yeah.

[00:36:09] Mike Richardson (): and going onwards and upwards.

so, uh, technology leaders who are listening to this, um, no better place to level up yourself, uh, than a peer group. Uh, Scott and I have been seeing that for decades. And, uh, we're really, really, really excited to be, uh, to be, uh, running this, uh, peer forum specifically for technology leaders.

Any final thoughts that you wanna leave our listeners with, Scott?

[00:36:34] Scott Krawitz: Yeah. Mike, I'm gonna piggyback on your comment about, you know, AI growing in significance. So my question and challenge to the technology leaders out there would be, what are you doing to grow in significance?

[00:36:46] Mike Richardson (): Beautiful. And that's the work that we do. Everybody, we put these big questions on the table in the peer group. Uh, they're, they're often, um. Fueled by the speakers that we bring in. There are three elements to a, a great peer group meeting. Everybody. We have an educational component where we have a speaker and we bring in those speakers who can really light a fire, really fuel, uh, uh, a thought process and stimulate the members to really be wrestling with.

Uh, what's on their plates. Uh, the second element of the meeting is what we call the round table, everybody. And this is where the sharing and the, and the self-assessment and the disclosing and the, um, you know, sharing goals and strategies and those kinds of things and, and the leadership development happens.

So that's the second element, the round table. And then the third element actually is probably the most important, isn't it, Scott? And that is where we. We get members to bring their most challenging issues, problems, opportunities. Uh, not just in business, but also in life, uh, to the table. And we call that a case.

And, um, uh, we process that, issue, that case together. And if it's a, if it's a fairly sizable, complex case, you know, we may be at it for an hour, in some cases, maybe an hour and a half, processing that case. Uh, you, you, you know, Scott, that, uh. I'm helping launch some other forums, and we had a meeting yesterday morning and we did a case yesterday morning, uh, for a volunteer in the room.

You know, someone that was getting oriented to, to what this is all about has never had, never met the other people in the room. This was just a, you know, an orientation session. We processed a case together for a full hour.

[00:38:33] Scott Krawitz: Hmm.

[00:38:33] Mike Richardson (): And it was fantastic and everybody got value from it. In particular, the member that volunteered to process it.

And at the end of that, uh, hour, Scott, I, I asked a question You are familiar with that? I've been asking for 23 years now, at the end of every case that I've ever processed, and I've done hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands. I turned to the member, this volunteer. I've never met this person before. This is their first, actually, it wasn't their very first experience of a peer group in this particular case.

Um, he'd been in a, another sort of informal peer group, but, but wanted to do a more formal experience, which was why he was with us. I turned to him and I said, where else do you have that you can go and do what we just did with you in the last hour?

[00:39:26] Scott Krawitz: Hmm. Powerful.

[00:39:27] Mike Richardson (): He just quietly sat there and he gradually shook his head he said, I don't, I don't have anywhere else that I can go and, and be as transparent.

Be as real. Be as authentic as I just was with all of you, most of whom I've never met before. Uh, you know, for the last hour, he says, I, I can't, I can't do that with my management team.

[00:40:01] Scott Krawitz: Yeah.

[00:40:01] Mike Richardson (): I mean, not, not as fully transparently. I can't do that with my board.

[00:40:06] Scott Krawitz: Right.

[00:40:07] Mike Richardson (): I can't do that with my spouse, partner, significant other, frankly, not as fully and comprehensively and transparently as I just did with all of you.

[00:40:17] Scott Krawitz: Yeah.

[00:40:18] Mike Richardson (): And so that's what it's about, everybody. It's a very special place. Um, you know, as you know, I've, I've had members in my forums for 15 years, 12 years, 10 years, eight years. Uh, why? Because they find it so invaluable. They find it so irreplaceable, unlike anything else they can get anywhere else.

And so that's what's in store here, everybody. We're blessed to have Scott Kratz, uh, facilitating our peer forum for technology leaders. Um, you've heard the wealth of experience and insight that he's bringing to that table, to that equation. We're really excited about where this can go, not least of all, because of this AI era that we are now in, and we're really excited about the, the, the place that this technology forum can have in our bigger comm, bigger ref community.

Of CEOs and executives helping everybody figure out this AI thing. And as I mentioned, Scott and I are gonna be co-hosting some events to help our wider community of, uh, of members, you know, see demos and applications and all kinds of great stuff. So, uh, Scott, thanks so much for being here today. Uh, well, well, I love this conversation.

Really cool. And there you have it everybody. That was another episode of the Peering podcast. Thanks for being here, everybody. And we will see you next time. Thanks, Scott.